Monday, January 10, 2011

Sin and Perfection Part 4

To continue with the conversation, my Christian friend asked :"But how do you atone for your sins, or pay for the mistakes you've made in life?"

Atheist--Well, I apologize, and I make amends for the mistake if necessary, as everyone should, and I make a point of not repeating the same mistake twice. My question to you would be, how do YOU atone? Apologize to your god and "repent"? How does that do anything for the "victims" of your mistakes?? It doesn't. So my system, of taking responsibility, not repeating my mistakes, and making amends for them, is far superior to just saying "sorry" to an invisible deity. As you said--secular laws--not god's laws--takes care of the "bad guys"

When you said, "The Bible says that God cannot be mocked. You can't just live anyway you like with the intent that you'll repent when you're about to die." this is a nonsensical claim, as I have no intention of "repenting". As I said earlier, I make amends for my mistakes HERE--which is what counts. How does a priest make amends for molesting children? Or a televangelist who frequents prostitutes? They call themselves "sinners" and beg forgiveness from their god.....but the children and the wives continue to suffer. In fact, the church goes out of its way to hide the "sins" of its patriarchs in order to avoid paying restitution in this life. How pathetically unjust.

Christian--You only say that (Christianity has proven itself to be a violent, misogynistic, patriarchal religion whose teachings promote killing, murder, rape, child molestation, war, etc.") because that's what you'd like to believe. FYI there's been more non-Christian (secular and other religion) atrocities committed around the world.

Atheist--No, I said that because it is TRUE, and the evidence proves it is TRUE. The "witches" the church murdered during the Inquistions were medicine women who were independent of men, and did not need them to survive. The patriarchal institution of the church could not have they demonized them and took over their duties. Sadly, the men were not aware of the sterile techniques and herbal remedies the witches used, and millions died before they figured it out (Mary Daly - Gyn/Ecology)

The bible condones the "taking of virgins" as the spoils of war, and women are required to prove their virginity, which is not a requirement of men. Women were to abstain from speaking in churches. Women were sequestered for 2 weeks after giving birth to a girl, but only one for a boy. The sexism is rampant in your holy book, and has contributed to the mistreatment of women for centuries.
Many wars were carried out in the name of your god, and that cannot be denied. No war was ever committed because a leader wished to force people to become atheists. These were done with a political agenda...not a religious one, which cannot be said for the Inquisitions, etc

That's just one of the misconceptions a lot of non-Christians have about Christianity is that we are unaccountable in this life, but when we apologize to God, we're also required to apologize to the people we've wronged.

I wasn't directing my previous statement about "repentance" to you. I said God cannot be mocked because you said some Christians intentionally do a lot of bad stuff with the intention of repenting later.

There are many who make amends for the bad things they did. Those who don't are clearly wrong. Just because you know some who tried to hide what they did doesn't mean all of them try to evade responsibility. And of course, when a preacher engages in an immoral act the media usually broadcasts it to the world. Don't forget there are thousands of non-preachers and even atheists who've also engaged in such acts as you mentioned, but did not even apologize to the ones they wronged.

I've noticed you've kept comparing yourself to Christians, but you also need to remember that not every Atheist shares the same principles you do. There are lots of Atheists who've also done the very things you've accused Christians of doing.

Atheist-- And how do you, exactly, apologize to someone that is DEAD?? How do you apologize to the Native Americans, the "witches" the homosexuals, etc. that christians tortured and murdered??

The point here is...I am able to do right in the first place, whereas christians believe they cannot. Christians believe they are born sinners, and sin 24/7...sin, repent "apologize....sin, repent, apologize.....repeat when necessary. Which is exactly what christians have been doing for centuries...and it is that type of belief and attitude that PROMOTES killing, rape, child molestation, etc. christians take so much PRIDE in saying they are "sorry" to their god, and repenting for their wrongs.....instead of taking PRIDE in doing what is right in the first place and not having something that they have to apologize and "repent" for. I take "PRIDE" in doing what is right the FIRST place. Therefore I do not have to worry about saying "sorry" for something I should not have done. I have PRIDE in doing what is RIGHT.

Your god mocks himself, as Jesus said, "We know a tree by the fruits it bears"--and it applies to the entire christian faith and everything else. The "tree" known as christianity, has born MUCH bad fruit. Their atrocities committed as a result of their christian beliefs, could fill volumes.

Atheists, pagans, and western civilization is influenced by christian dogma, whether they are christian or not. The belief system is pervasive in our society. This is the reason why wives are abused, and then "forgive" their abuser and take them back......many times resulting in their murder.

I claim that christianity, and belief in christianity promotes killing, murder, rape and child molestation. I have never claimed they are the ONLY ones to commit those atrocities, but they are the majority. You have heard of the notion of probability and statistics haven't you?

Here is one example for you:
Many of the non-Abrahamic religions, not all of them, but some of them--have a holistic view of nature which promotes a more harmonious relationship between humans and nature. Whereas, christianity, with its dominion view of nature, promotes disharmony and destruction of natural resources and animal species. This is a known FACT. More of the earth has been destroyed by christians in one second on a 60 minute time clock, than any religion before them.

It's not the case that christians are the ONLY ones in history that say sorry if they make a mistake, likewise many christians NEVER say they are sorry, and they hope and pray (pun intended) that their deeds are never found out.

Furthermore, the fact christians believe they are "sinners" promotes sinning. That is my PRIMARY point that you keep bastardizing. It is a statistical claim--born bad, must BE bad....  You reap what you sow.

The next conversation deals with the Christian view of pride, another interesting topic.

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