So, what exactly is perfection?? According to Christianity, it means to be "without sin", and Christians believe that Jesus is the only human to have existed "without sin" This ongoing conversation between a Christian and an atheist proves this assumption to be wrong.....
Christian--Again, I have to stress that the problem here is that you have a different view of what perfection is. You've made mistakes in life and probably will make mistakes in the future, ergo you can't say you're perfect. Can you say a car is perfect even though it broke down last week? If it was perfect it would never break down.
We don't say people sin everyday, although sometimes we be doing things that are wrong but not be aware of it. E.g you said you were perfect yesterday and didn't commit any sin. But by rejecting God you've already committed a sin. Apart from that, there are many other things we believe, think or do that are wrong, but we don't know until someone tells us or we read about it somewhere.
And the analogy (previous post) you gave about Jesus is wrong. The Bible says that no one who truly follows God willfully sins. God knows our hearts, no one can deceive Him. And though when we repent we're forgiven, We all will be judged in heaven for every useless word, thought and action.
Furthermore, God does not overlook the justice system of the world. He allows it so that any murderer, rapist, robber.. should pay the penalty for the heinous acts they commit here on earth. Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you get a free pass here.
Atheist--The lack of justice and morality in religion is why we have "secular laws" and morality and ethics which come from society--not religious dogma. For real justice to occur, people must be held accountable in THIS LIFE for their actions, in order to protect society, and prevent atrocities from reoccurring.
Morality comes from Normative Ethical Theories such as Utilitarianism, which means doing what is right for the overall good.--no gods required. This, along with various other theories, is how ethics and morals are formed. If we actually used the "Divine Command Theory" ie. the NET which states that "whatever god says is good is good"--then those people who kill their children because they wanted to save them from Satan would be justified, or those that invade other countries "in the name of god" would be justified, or people such as Eddie Long, who used scripture to justify his actions....would be justified!! Which is why we do NOT use the bible as a "moral guide"
So you are telling me that anyone who "rejects & blasphemes God" will be sent to hell, as well as those who are humanists and feed the hungry, and support women who are abused by their christian husbands, etc.--just because they don't believe--but a murderous rapist who repents and does believe goes to heaven. One of the biggest reasons why chistianity fails is the lack of real justice, in that anyone can repent and be saved.....no matter how heinous the crime. No accountability.....and prayer and repentance does not count. Repentance does nothing for the victims of these crimes.
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Chrstian--I would advise you not to listen to any one who uses scripture to justify their own personal sinful act.
Atheist--The irony is so thick, I can cut it with a knife. Considering that you are a "born sinner" and you are "sinning" all the time......of course you would be using your holy book to justify your actions, and you would be justified in doing so, as you are a "born sinner" after all!
I hope you can see just how convoluted your beliefs are.....but I doubt it as you have been taught that "faith" is a virtue, and therefore, you can just ignore the truth. Faith is only a virtue, however, if it is faith in the right thing, and christianity is not. Christianity has proven itself to be a violent, misogynistic, patriarchal religion whose teachings promote killing, murder, rape, child molestation, war, etc. etc. If you do not believe me, read the papers and study some history. In fact, read "American Holocaust" by David Stannard, and you will find out how the "good christians" strung up indians in groups of 12 to represent the "apostles" Or do you remember the "ice cream socials" down south where "good christians" lynched African Americans? It's also why "good christian women" stand by their abusive husbands, and why little children are raped by pedophiliac priests.
"Forgive the patriarchs, for they are dirty, low down sinners that do not have the ability to do what is right"--what a sick, sick philosophy that is.........
To be continued..... What is interesting about conversing with such Christians is their complete dependency on Humpty Dumpty Semantics . They believe they have the right to make words and sentences mean whatever they want them to mean, which can make dialogue both interesting and frustrating at the same time.
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