Thursday, February 3, 2011

How mistranslations somehow become the "word of god" ie the "Textus Receptus"

This was a highly entertaining  email conversation I had with a street evangelist, based on a question I asked on Yahoo Answers concerning the paraphrasing of Mark 1:2-3.   He goes on to claim the Textus Receptus is a reliable source. I had to laugh.....  Here is the question, and the exchange that followed.  Enjoy.

Why do academic Christians who KNOW that Mark 1:2-3 is a "paraphrase" from three different passages in the OT, namely Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1 and Exodus 23:20, explain that it is NOT a quote from Isaiah prophesying the return of Jesus, but a misquote? Why don't learned christians explain that it is only a paraphrase taken from various prophets making reference to various other subject matter, and not to Jesus?

This leads to distortion and misrepresentation. In this case, paraphrase is just another explanation and excuse for a misquote, and to misrepresent the truth.

Exodus 23:20:-- "See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared"

Malachi 3:1-- "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty" (NIV).

Isaiah 40:3--A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God (NIV).

Results in:

"It is written in Isaiah the prophet: "I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way a voice of one calling in the desert, Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.’ Mark 1:2-3

Christian--The first problem you are having is that you are using a version of the Bible that is unreliable in it's translation. The second problem you are having is that you are trying to act like you know something that you do not.

Mark 1:2-3 does quote from Isaiah and Malachi, and the quotes are accurate. There is no "lie" or "misleading" involved.

Atheist--Your explanation may have worked for you in the past, when you are dealing with people that do not KNOW the material, but your feeble attempt at Humpty Dumpty semantics will not work on someone like myself who has studied at university/seminary, and TEACHES it at university level for a living.

If you know it, why not explain it to the people, and let them make a RATIONAL decision based on the FACTS, as opposed to being a dishonest so-called scholar. You should be ashamed.......

Christian--Wow, you seem to think pretty highly of yourself, and, without knowing anything about me, assume I do not know what I'm talking about. If you knew the Textus Receptus, you would know that "prophet" is there. Here is the actual writing in the Textus Receptus...

ως γεγραπται εν τοις προφηταις ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου ος κατασκευασει την οδον σου εμπροσθεν σου

" προφηταις " is the Greek word, " prof-ay'-tace " which means "foreteller" or "Prophet".

As you can see, it is in the original.

The KJV reads, (Mark 1:2) "As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

As you can see, the word "Isaiah" is not even the original Greek, or the English translation.

So, as I said before, You are using a perverted copy, or simply do not know what you are talking about.

Atheist--Lolol--yes, I think very highly of myself. I am one that your god said he would "destroy"--as in "destroy the wisdom of the wise."

Let me demonstrate. Unlike you, I research everything, and do not take anything on "faith". You mentioned the "Textus Receptus" as being, I quote, "As you can see, it is in the original."--lolol--thanks for that, I haven't laughed so hard in a while.

The Textus Receptus is a "translation" by Erasmus of another "translation of the Vulgate......NOT an original. This is the difference between a scholar---me---and an ignorant wanna be scholar--you.

The original Greek--and scholars such as myself have checked the ORIGINAL Greek, just as we check the ORIGINAL Hebrew--says ISAIAH.

I suggest you go to school, but if already have, you need to go back. I suspect, based on your "skills" that you are a member of a christian cult that has no valid academic foundation. Basically, you are just given a "pastoral document" and Sunday school "in house" education--that is totally biased towards your own particular dogma--as opposed to a TRUE academic study. For instance, such as the education that catholic priests, or Methodists or Lutherans are given.

As a further note, if you rely on the Textus Receptus, then I believe you are a true sheeple, and will follow anything you are told blindly.....................

Christian--Well, thanks for your imput. The Scriptures say that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Since you have rejected the very God that created you, it is understandable that you have no least in regards to spiritual matters.

This being said, there is not much use speaking with you regarding such matters.

And just for the record, God destroying the wisdom of the wise is a future event when He returns again. So, glory in you worldly wisdom while you can. It won't last much longer.

Atheist--You have no should be honest and courageous enough to admit that to yourself.

Christian--I have been a street Evangelist for twenty-two years now. During that twenty-two years I have studied Greek and Hebrew and have done extensive study into manuscript evidence. Over the years I have learned a lot. As a result, I will share two things with you.

(1) I am convinced beyond any doubt that the KJV is the inspired Word of God for the English Speaking people, and the manuscripts used to translate it into English are inspired of God.

(2) There is no sense wasting my time with someone like you. You think you have it all figured out, and without the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you, I would be waisting my time.

Have a good day, basking in your humanistic wisdom.

Atheist--You say "KJV is the inspired Word of God for the English Speaking people,"--but the evidence states otherwise....unless of course the christian god is stupid.

Your "perfect" god would not have "rushed" Erasmus into creating a book that was full of errors and mistranslations of the actual meanings of what it was translated from...........that is not something a "perfect" god would do. A perfect god would not "inspire" Erasmus to "polish" the language ie "change" it, because as he said, ""It is only fair that Paul should address the Romans in somewhat better Latin."--no, a "perfect" god would not inspire someone to change the text......but that is what happened.

Christian--I'm not avoiding anything. I just don't waist my time with people who are only out to argue. You are so stuck on yourself, and have rejected the only source of spiritual truth (God), and as such, it would be a waist (his spelling, not mine) of my time to try and teach you anything.

Have you ever heard the saying, "it is better to keep you mouth closed and let people think you are a fool, then to open it and prove them right"?

In your case, it's to late.
I will not be responding, nor reading any further emails from you. It is obvious that you only want to show how "smart" you are, and to argue. There is nothing I can say that will help you, and there is nothing you have to say that I haven't heard, studied, and dismissed at some point in the past. So I bid you a good day,

Atheist--No need to reply when you do not have one......I understand completely. Good day to you as well.

(This is more fun and entertaining when I do it with a theologian in front of my students.......but this email exchange was entertaining as well.)

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